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Forum:Vigoor and the Holy Vigoor Emperor: Are they the same?
Seems to be some confusion on this, just wanted to get some thoughts, so I list how I came to the conclusion that they're seperate. Here's the source material, starting with Vigoor Mythology from the Ninja Gaiden Loading Screens: ---- The Book of Genesis In the beginning, a great inconsistency flowed out into the nothing; a nothing that was afraid of its own nothingness. A pure terror without color, without sound, without smell, it formed root of all deification, and eventually it coalesced into the shape of the first Deity, Gurdu. Gurdu gave birth to all elements, and provided them with order and function. In a remote area of space from where Gurdu provided order, there existed the territory of a chaos formed from elements without shape. This chaos, which had been forgotten during the blessings of Gurdu, existed at first as only a instinctual fear, but eventually the chaos began to take shape and a consciousness was formed within it. At first this was just a small envious presence, but eventually it grew and became clearer. This marked the appearance of the Hatred. The chaotic nature of the Hatred further evolved it, bringing it to the level of a Deity. Thus, the ancestor of all Evil Deities, Vigoor, came into being, and the first conflict was set into motion. The Book of Evil Deities The ancestor of all Evil Deities, Vigoor, began to devour the territory of Gurdu, beginning at its center. During endless solar and lunar eclipses, the earth shook and split, the seas dried up only to flood into existence again, and intense winds swept over everything and fires burned down all of existence, ignoring even the concept of time itself. Eventually, Gurdu lost his strength, and the world once again plunged into the chaos from which it had come. Then, a great change occurred. During the throes of the unending destruction, the body of Gurdu himself split into fourths. Each part became a Deity itself, controlling Sentiment, Wisdom, Immorality, and Creation. Eventually they would come together to restore shape to the world again, but in their panic-stricken state after their birth they still had little power. The Book of Dragons In this age of panic, the Serpent, Deity of Creation was the only one of the Deities who managed to keep some semblance of sanity. The Serpent gave birth to a tiny presence, something that no other being would even notice... the seeds of life. These seeds managed to take hold and grow in the storm of chaos, and ever so slightly began to evolve, eventually becoming thirteen Dragons, whose destinies were to be found in battle. The Dragons waged an endless battle against Vigoor, who never ceased in his attempts to bring the world into chaos of hatred. Eventually the Dragons were able to banish Vigoor to the very ends of the world. However, it was at this time that the youngest and lowest in position of the Dragons, the Dark Dragon, summoned the Hatred with its feelings of inferiority. Due to this betrayal, Vigoor was able to keep from being completely destroyed. The Book of the Fiends The Dark Dragon, now full of evil intent, joined with Vigoor and his spawn of Evil Deities to further capture the territory of Gurdu . This conflict continued throughout the eons of history, and during its struggle the first spark of human life appeared in the form of the Ancient tribes. Of course, old conflicts never cease, and even in the age of the Ancient tribes the Dragon Lineage and Evil Deities continued their battle for tens of thousands of generations, a struggle that finally ended when the members of the Dragon Lineage were able to seal away the Evil Deities and their spawn. However, in that age of chaos all of the bloodlines of Ancient tribes were mixed, and the form and nature of the Ancients has been carried on by us, the Fiends. The Book of the Future The land that the Evil Deity Vigoor once held as his final territory has become this, the land of Vigoor. The treachery of the Dark Dragon also occurred here, and this was where the Ancient Tribes lived. That is why their descendants, us the Fiends, have taken over control of these lands. With this land as a barrier, the power of Vigoor is limited only to this Earth. Vigoor is the Demon of Destruction and the Deity who creates history; when the decadence of this world has piled up, he will return in a blaze of all-destroying flame and recreate the world. Chaos, like the floods on the banks of a great river, will fulfill this world once again, and we will be the first recipients of this fulfillment. Evolution has and always will begin from here, the land of Vigoor. It has been several hundred years, since the Supreme Fiend Gogohn established what would eventually become the Vigoor Empire here on these lands. If a new warrior of the Dragon Lineage shall appear, the Holy Emperor shall be infused with the power of the Evil Deities. After seven days, from the unity of His Majesty with the Dark Dragon once again, we Fiends will be blessed with an exquisite harmony. The Dragon Lineage An ancient race of beings that was said to have defeated the sinister Evil Deities in the age of ancient myth; the descendents of this bloodline came to be known in a later age as the Dragon Ninja, the modern-day Hayabusa Ninja Clan. The leader of these people has throughout history always carried the legendary Dragon Sword, used to defeat evil wherever it surfaced. It is fate of the Dragon Lineage to be inexorably linked to their nemeses, the Evil Deities. Fiends A race of monsters that is seen only rarely in the Vigoor Empire, they are the result of a transformation in certain humans and other animals that carry a susceptible genetic code; it is speculated that certain unique factors in the Vigoorian environment also facilitate this phenomenon. As a result, epidemiologists believe it to be endemic to the Vigoor Empire. The Fiends have long been subjects of fear and awe, and a culture of Fiend worship is still very prevalent in Vigoor. Fiends of a special rank and ability are known as Greater Fiends. The Vigoor Empire An imperialistic nation located in a land-locked area in western Asia. The country remains shrouded in mystery due to its long-standing policy of national seclusion. Vigoor maintains a unique belief system as its state religion. Its leader, the Holy Vigoor Emperor, holds supreme power in both the political and religious worlds; however, details surrounding him are slight. ---- I bolded all the times Vigoor was mention and there was nothing about him becoming the emperor. The closest thing is what's mention in the Book of the Future, talking about Vigoor's powers being restricted to the land of the Vigoor Empire, but that doesn't really say he became the Emperor. There is mention of him being the Demon of Destruction second paragraph down in the Book of the Future, and he is mentioned numerous times being a Deity, so logical that statue of "Demon: Deity of Destruction" you pick up after killing Marbus would be a representation of him. There's the part that says Vigoor would return after when decadence in the world piles up, burning the whole world and recreating it. As far as I know that hasn`t happened yet, unless it's Emperor doing this but Emperor isn't a deity of all destorying flame, he's a man. And if Vigoor was the returning as the Emperor I think they would have mentioned it here. Then it talks about Gogohn establishing the Vigoor Empire, at first I thought Gogohn would be the Emperor because he established the Empire, but according the Prayer of the Necronmetale from NG2 he's long dead. The Emperor just appears out of nowhere in the last paragraph, no mention of how he became the Emperor. But he does gain the powers of the evil deities from the Dark Dragon Blade, this could make him Vigoor, but it doesn't mention which evil deities. Since it's the Dark Dragon Blade, the evil deity is probably the Dark Dragon, considering in NGDS the Emperor is powerless against the Dark Dragon, Vigoor wouldn't be so powerless. I think I might see where the Vigoor and the Emperor being the same might have started, but there's nothing here that says they are the same, just vague statments that is no more than speculation. The Deity Vigoor is always refered to as Vigoor and the Emperor is always refered to as the Emperor, Holy Emperor, Vigoor Emperor, or Holy Vigoor Emperor, never as just Vigoor. Now the Necromantale from NGII: ---- The Prayer of the Necromantale Worship the Archfiends. Bless the holy Vigoor, he who hath wrought us as his progeny. Praise be to his successor, the Archfiend Vazdah, who stands above us as Lord of our order. His arms hath been borne from the right arm of Vigoor, His legs hath been borne from the left leg of Vigoor, His bones formed from holy Vigoor's flesh, Bless Vazdah's brain, birthed forth from the mind of Vigoor himself. Hear the beating of the heart that echoes throughout the Underworld. We are the supreme followers of our Lord Vazdah. Under the terrible grace of the Archfiends, we shall find true happiness. To those who live, and you feel not yet alive, Gather yourselves in the holy Lair of the Archfiend, sculpted by the Supreme Fiend Gogohn. Pray for the return of the holy land of Vigoor, once ruled by Gogohn, he who roamed the Earth. Make your way to the heights of the burning mountain in the land where the Sun rises. In this shrine, final resting place of Gogohn, bring forth the sacrificed bodies of innocents. Gather them at the feet of the beautiful Queen of Blood. We return the gospel of the Archfiend here, to the Necromantale, where it belongs. Archfiend Vazdah, rise up from your deep slumber. Gogohn's princess, the shrine maiden of blood, guides us. We stand gathered here in the sacred Necromantale, ready to shed the blood of innocents. Though millennia may come and go, our prayers shall never cease. ---- Here again there is no mention of Vigoor being the Emperor. Interestingly there is mention of Gogohn ruling the Vigoor Empire for a while, so we know there was a time when the Emperor wasn't in charge. Also mentions Vazdah rising from the body of Vigoor, suggesting Vigoor either died or split himself like Gurdu. Which kind of makes sense, because back in the Vigoor mythology there is no mention any Evil Deity besides Vigoor, up to the point where he was defeated by the Dragons. The Evil Deities or Archfiends(in NG2) and Fiends don't appear until The Book of the Fiends. And after that point there is no mention of Vigoor doing anything, just that he will one day return when decadence builds up. Now the four greater fiends books from NGII: ---- The Four Greater Fiends, Part 1 Countless millennia ago, long before the existence of other powerful Fiends, four great beings rose to power. Known as the Kings and Queens of the Fiends, together they split the Underworld into four sections, each ruling over their own domain. One, the ruler of Flame. Another, the ruler of Storms, The third, the ruler of Lightning. The last, the ruler of Blood. The Four Greater Fiends, Part 2 Eventually, the tension between the four Fiend Rulers turned into a fierce battle. The world was plunged into chaos, as though Hell had erupted upon Earth. This infernal conflict drew the attention of one of the Archfiends known as Vazdah. Slowly, he arose from his deep slumber to glimpse at the commotion. Lord Vazdah's eyes opened upon a man, a lone human who plummeted into the deep abyss of the Archfiend's stare. The Four Greater Fiends, Part 3 The great philosopher Dagra Dai roamed the ravaged land, detached from the destruction he saw about him. Wandering while lost in thought, he stumbled to the bottom of a deep, dark pit, and found himself staring directly into the evil eye of the Archfiend Vazdah. The horrible light of the Archfiend's gaze burned into his forehead. When Dagra Dai awoke, he found himself cursed with a third eye and a horrific epiphany. The human philosopher was no more. Now known as the Infernal Priest Dagra Dai, his ferocity and wickedness nearly matched that of the Archfiends. With this new-found strength, he forced the four Fiend rulers to do his bidding. He dubbed them the Four Greater Fiends, and took the throne to rule over them. Thus was born the era of the Infernal Priest. ---- I just though I'd mention this because Vazdah has a human that rules over the Greater Fiends. If you look on Dagra Dai's page you'll see his Japanese name (兇魔皇帝ダグラダイ Kyoma Kotei Dagra Dai; Hellish Demon Emperor Dagra Dai), suggesting he's the emperor of the Vazdah greater fiends. In a way the Vigoor Emperor could be the emperor for Vigoor fiends since both Vazdah and Vigoor are Archfiends. This makes sense because Emperor is walks around like normal man, just like Dagra Dia. But like Vigoor and Emperor being the same so far, it's just speculation, though an interesting one. Which brings us to the not so smart Monk's diary from NGI: ---- A diary written by a monk: "It is the 27TH day of the 12TH month, I have received the Book of the Eons as a birthday gift from His Majesty the Emperor. It is a great honor. I shall place it in the safe that no one will take it." At the end of the entry, there are notes reading LEFT, RIGHT, RIGHT, LEFT. On the last page there is a hastily scribbled message: "I cannot believe it. Someone has opened the safe. The Book of the Eons I had received from the Emperor himself was stolen. In order to prevent this from ever happening again, I shall change the combination. The date of my daughter's birthday should suffice." At the end of the message, there are notes reading RIGHT, LEFT, RIGHT, LEFT. A message was found on one of the previous pages: "It is the 14TH day of the 10TH month, my beloved daughter's birthday. I remember her birth as if it were yesterday. What a glorious event that was!" On the last page there is yet another scribbled note: "My safe has been tampered with again! I have no choice but to change the number once again; this time I shall use my granddaughter's birthday. December 23RD, yes, I think that's right. No one will break into my safe again!" At the end of the entry, there are noted reading LEFT, LEFT, RIGHT, LEFT. On the last page, there a faint barely readable entry: "That safe is worth about as much as a dog turd." ---- Still no mention of Vigoor being the Emperor, but it suggest the Emperor is in human form, just like Dagra Dai. Now the books you pick up in Ninja Gaiden: ---- The History of Vigoor I ...ever since, these monsters have come to be known as Fiends. The majority of them are mutations of human beings, existing in a condition of living without a soul due to their corruption by evil... The History of Vigoor II ...however, the extraordinary power of the Fiends is incomparable to that of humans; in fact the highest level of Fiends exists in a state that can only be described as having transcended physical boundaries of form. Looking back through the pages of history, it is quite probable that many of the most powerful members of the Vigoorian ruling class in fact belonged to this classification. It is not surprising, then, that the Fiends have been seen as gods... The History of Vigoor III ...it is said that sometimes Fiends may rise up from dead bodies; in fact there were many Monks of the Vigoor Order during the Middle Ages who labored for years to recreate this phenomenon... The History of Vigoor IV ...the vast majority of records dealing with the Fiends date from Middle Ages or earlier. During recent times the Fiends have greatly decreased in numbers; so much so that for a member of the general Vigoorian public' to come into contact with a Fiend has become an extremely rare occurence... The Emperor, Lord of All Creation ...the Vigoor Emperor is the figurehead of the commoners, and his absolute authority as the Holy leader of our Vigoorian Order cannot be denied. He controls all, physical and ethereal, regardless of time or place... ---- There is still no mention of Vigoor becoming the Emperor, or any statements that say the Emperor is Vigoor. Just that the Vigoor Emperor is the figurehead of the Vigoor religion, like in the "Vigoor Empire" loading screen description above. He is the leader of the Vigoorian Order, that doesn't really say he's Vigoor. There is mention of the Vigoorian ruling class having fiend powers. This to me says they are human but may also be Greater Fiends, and the Vigoor Emperor may fit into this category. I also speculate that the Vigoor Emperor and Vigoorian ruling class may be related Gogohn somehow, but it's only speculation. The Lord of all creation and controlling everything part does sound a bit like Vigoor, but at the same time you could say it's just the Vigoor religion, because the Emperor doesn't have those abilities. And still I was looking for something that said they are the same not vague statements that speculates they are the same. Ninja Gaiden Dragon Sword preview interview: ---- Itagaki: At the time of the first Ninja Gaiden the fiends of the Vigoor Empire were the leaders of the underworld, so to speak. And you know, at the time the other fiend clans couldn't deny the control of the Vigoorian fiends, because of the strength of the Vigoor Empire and the emperor there was the figurehead for the entire race. So the story of this game is behind the conflict behind these two different tribes, the ninja clans and the fiend clans, and that will provide the two major plot points for the story. source ---- Itagaki talks about the Emperor being the figurehead of the entire fiend race, but he doesn't say the Emperor is in fact Vigoor, I looked for interviews to see if they were the same, and couldn't find any. From Ninja Gaiden Dragon Sword: ---- In ancient times, humans lived in peace with dragons. But then came the Dark Dragon, a malevolent giant that wasted no time in plunging the Earth into an abyss of darkness. Their strength drained by the evil of the Dark Dragon, the remaining dragons placed their last hope in the hands of the humans in the form of one of their own fangs. Thus was born the Dragon Sword, a formidable weapon inhabited by the very essence of the powers of the dragons. It was with this sword that the humans were able to defeat the Dark Dragon. In the countless millennia since, the dragons have long since perished. But their spirit remains in the form of that sword, now carried by the descendants of the humans that fought by the side on that fateful day. Long ago, the Dark Dragon plunged the world into an era of chaos. Upon this eventual defeat, an enchanted sword known as the Dark Dragon Blade was created from its bones. This dangerously powerful weapon, infused with the malevolent spirit of the Dark Dragon itself, was entrusted to the care of a bloodline of humans known as the Dragon Lineage. However, evil beings, enthralled by its immense evil power, stole the Dark Dragon Blade. And once again the world faced the threat of eternal darkness . a young Ninja named Ryu Hayabusa, survivor of the Hayabusa clan and descendant of the Dragon Lineage, took up his family legendary birthright, the Dragon Sword, to face this threat alone. At the end of an intense battle, Ryu shattered the evil Dark Dragon Blade into countless shards with blow from his Dragon Sword. Six months have passed since what is now known as the Dark Dragon Blade Incident. ---- Not really any mention of Vigoor or the Emperor, but I just wanted to add this because I used it to make sense of the timeline such as the mixed up stuff in the Book of the Fiends. Chronologically to me the mythology event's happen like this. *Dragons defeat Vigoor. *Vigoor survives by corrupting the Dark Dragon. *Vigoor spawns the Evil Deities and Archfiend like Vazdah who rose from parts of Vigoor's body (Speculate that he may have split into many Archfiends, maybe a part him went to the Dark Dragon as well) *Evil Deities spawn the fiends. *Humans appear and live in peace with the Dragons as mention in NGDS. *The Dark Dragon appears and defeat the Dragons, then plunges the world in a chaos. *In the chaos and confusion, the Evil Deities and Archfiend mix the bloodlines of the humans to create a new race of fiends. *Dragons sacrifice themselves to create Dragon Sword and the Dragon Lineage slays the Dark Dragon with it. *Fiend clans fight with each other. *Vazdah awakens, takes over, and transforms Dagra Dai into his Infernal High Priest. *Dragon Lineage become Dragon Ninja and banish the Archfiends and Greater Fiends. (Becuase the Greater Fiends and Dagra Dai in NG2 mostly refer to Ryu as a Dragon Ninja, suggesting Dragon Ninja existed back then otherwise they wouldn't know what Dragon Ninja is) *Goghon establishes the Vigoor Empire and rules it. *Goghon erects shrines dedicated to Vazdah in the Amazon jungle and dies. *The Vigoor Emperor takes over the Vigoor Empire. That's my take on everything. I looked through all the source material for a simple statement that says something along the lines of "Vigoor is the Emperor" or "The Emperor is Vigoor" but found none, even anything saying "Vigoor became a man", so to me they are seperate beings. It does however say Vigoor is the Demon of Destruction and a Deity, and you get the Demon: Deity of Destruction statue after killing Marbus, suggesting the Demon statue is a statue of Vigoor. Anyway I would like to get your thoughts on this.--FoxMikage 14:18, February 29, 2012 (UTC)